Healing Histories – structural injustice

How do we heal the history of racism when it is still so present and prevalent? Gillian explores this difficult question with the Revd Dr Sharon Prentis. Revd Prentis is Deputy Director of Church of England’s Racial Justice Unit. She is also a tutor in theology and in her previous work was recognised by the Department of Health when she was named as a Mary Seacole Scholar for a project on faith and the impact on health.   

Together they cover the following themes:

• What it means for people to thrive.
• Institutional health practices and what needs to change.
• How the Church of England’s Racial Justice Unit came to exist.
• The whole person impact of racism.
• The daily reality of living with racism including code switching.
• Healing the history of the slave trade.
• The role of the church in healing racism and enabling the flourishing of all in our societies.
• Sharon’s personal story of how she came to engage in the work of honest dialogue. 
• What gives her hope to keep on keeping on.

Links:

Racial Justice Unit of the Church of England.
From Lament to Action report by the Church of England.

Every Tribe, by Sharon Prentis
The GoHealth Everyday Healing Course
Get your GoHealth journal here.
Visit our website to get connected with the GoHealth Community.
Find us on our socials @GuildofHealth

Gillian Straine: Welcome to the GoHealth podcast. I am Gillian Straine, chief executive of GoHealth, an organisation with a vision, a vision to enable churches and individual Christians to be a healing presence in the world. And right now, we are in our Healing History series where we’re exploring the impact of our past on our present with a range of expert voices so that we can go on a journey through our individual and collective lives to find healing and flourishing.

And our expert voice today is the Reverend Doctor Sharon Prentis, deputy director of the Church of England Race Commission. Sharon, welcome to the GoHealth podcast. I’m so glad you’re here. How are you? 

Dr Sharon Prentis: I’m fine, Gillian, and I’m looking forward to exploring together what it means to be a person who flourishes. 

Gillian: Person who flourishes, yeah, so it’s a great vision that we have in our charity. And I’m really excited about out conversation because I saw in one of your bios that you are concerned with what enables people to thrive emotionally, physically and spiritually. Tell us how this vision that you have relates to your current role, within the Race Commission in the Church of England. 

Sharon: As human beings we tend to think of ourselves very much in different compartments, you know, and that’s where our identity is based. But in the Racial Justice Unit, which works with the Archbishop’s Commission on Racial Justice, it’s about looking at the deficits that have historically excluded and marginalised people of colour, of global majority heritage backgrounds, whether they are black or brown or from other groups such as Gypsy, Roma traveler, and to work assiduously to ensure that they’re included in the full life of the church, and therefore their gifts and talents are part of who we are.

Gillian: So when you say the deficit, tell me about that. So what…this is sort of the problem in inverted commas or this is what they’re looking at. Tell me about the deficit, how it came around, how it shows up for people in the world today. 

Sharon: Over the last 30 years, there’s been a recognition that people from global majority heritage backgrounds are missing from all aspects of the church life. And so if we think about health as being an asset of our community life together, then if anybody is missing, then we are all the poorer for it. 

So the reports that have been written identifying the lack of representation in senior leadership, in parishes, the issues and challenges that black and brown people face and the impact on their, not just only their careers, but on their health as well and well being. Those things have been highlighted. And so in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd, there was a recognition that the church had to be intentional about diversity, inclusion and equity. And this was part of justice, God’s justice and righteousness. So the development of the report From Lament To Action meant that the Archbishop’s Commission on Racial Justice came out of that. And then the Racial Justice Unit, in order to help implement and support the dissemination of the recommendations that have been gathered over the last 30 years. So that’s the work that we’ve been doing. 

Gillian: So Sharon, I’m really curious if we could get into the experience of somebody of United Kingdom Minority Ethnic or Global Majority Heritage (UKME/GMH) in a church community. We’re saying there’s health impacts. Help me to understand the impact of these deficits on the individual life of somebody who might be in our church, or I think we can pretty much broaden this out to the society, right? What are the health impacts that we’re looking at here? 

Sharon: So we know from socioeconomic data around health that people from UKME/GMH backgrounds tend to have higher incidences of things like cardiovascular disease and diabetes. Also, in relation to other areas such as access to good health and also treatment options. So in a church you will have people who will be living with a range of long term conditions, but some of that community will experience a higher probability of having those conditions than others. And so we know that from the general population. So how do we, how do we make note of that within the context of our faith communities? 

Gillian: So Sharon there was a report out this last month, April 2024, about the social determinants of health and how across the UK as a whole we are living shorter, less healthy lives. From what you’ve been saying just now, there’s another layer to this that there’s inequality around health. What can the church do to be part of a solution rather than make these things worse when we’re talking about actual health outcomes for different people in our communities? 

Sharon: Well the church has had a long history of being involved in health provision and education. A number of social and welfare agencies and, you know, with the development of the national health system and our education system the church has become less and less involved. And what we now want to see again, and I think it’s happening, are faith based organisations and churches take up the mantle of what is it that people require in order to be healthy, in order to flourish? So we’ve seen a great proliferation of things like mental health cafes, for instance. So food banks, which sadly has arisen because of the need and the church has stepped in. But I’d love to see another layer where we are acknowledging some of the health disparities amongst our wider communities. 

A few years ago my husband was walking through a park. He’s a vicar. He’s walking through a park and he came across a group of Christians who were doing blood pressure checks. And one of the asked him, would you like your blood pressure measured? And he thought, well, it’s been ages, you know, he is…and I don’t want to sound stereotypical, but he’s a typical bloke, he doesn’t go to see his GP unless something is wrong. And, the person that took his blood pressure looked at him and said, I think you need to go to your doctor now. At which he kind of looked up and said, really? I feel okay. And he said, well, actually your blood pressure is very high and at that time he was the rector of three churches and very complex, very busy life running from here to there. 

Gillian: Yeah.

Sharon: He said that he’d had headaches, was just popping, you know, pills, analgesia to help him get through the day. And didn’t associate it with, you know, with the risk factor of being of African-Caribbean descent and having a propensity towards. We have a propensity towards increased blood pressure. So he went along to the doctor and the doctor said I’m so glad you came and put him on antihypertensive medication, which he’s been on ever since and that’s been 12 years ago. 

Gillian: Yeah, yeah. 

Sharon: That is the sort of thing. So if it, if it wasn’t that particular church group who just had an interest because they had a higher number of medical professions within their congregation and decided as part of their mission they would in fact offer this service to people and have a chat on a casual basis, they would have picked up my husband. And I dread to think of what would be the outcome. So I think churches can discern as part of their, I don’t know, mission strategies, find out about their local communities, find out who’s in their local communities, and then think, how can we serve people holistically? It might be mental health, it might be some other area. 

Gillian: Yeah. And that’s, so one of the things we do at GoHealth is our Healthy Healing Hub network, which is what we encourage churches to do. And one of the, not problems, but the humps we have to go over is helping people in leadership but more importantly, the lay leaders and, the congregation in general to take, to see whole person health, mind, body and spirit as, something that can be part of their mission because often they’ve got the space. So you’ve got a church hall, you’ve got a building that’s open every day. There’s more churches in the UK than there are GP’s. They’ve got the space to, so the collaboration stuff that can be done, but also we’ve got the theology for this as well don’t we?

Sharon: Absolutely, absolutely.  And so what does it mean to care for one another? And in respect of, you know, being our sisters and brothers keepers, that does not mean being a busybody and getting into people’s business. What it does mean is having an awareness and a sensitivity that there are some sections of our communities who have certain challenges or barriers. So what does it mean to collectively think intentionally about overcoming those things? 

Gillian: Yes. And the joining together of people, you know, of doing it as an organisation and taking…There was a report by Theos, the Future of the Church in the 21st century, I think it was called, which talked about relating outreach projects in particular into the liturgical heart of the worship, otherwise it doesn’t make sense. And  whatever you think, we’ve all got different ideas about liturgy, what works for us. What it means is worshiping God, really. And how we’re doing this is part of our a calling I think, it feels vocational, doesn’t it? 

Sharon: Absolutely. And and I think, you know, for too long, our definition of vocation seemed within a Christian context was narrow and only involved those that were either in leadership, ordained leadership. 

Gillian: Yes. 

Sharon: And now we’re seeing a much broader, encompassing of that definition as people feel or are able to articulate their call to certain services, whether that be health service or education and therefore, they bring with them that holistic perspective on what it means to serve people, what it means to be attentive to others needs, what it means to encourage flourishing so it becomes a mutual flourishing, inspired by the spirit. 

Gillian: So what’s come to my head Sharon is, a quotation from Karl Barth, weirdly, he’s one of the theologian, you think very dusty, very German. But in his writings, in Church Dogmatics, he has this thing that he writes about, when there is integration, that’s the word he uses, between mind, body and soul then the person will flourish because they’re finding their vocation. It’s about finding purpose. I wonder if that’s the way we can go into this conversation around the inherited, maybe trauma around race and the things that are dislocated people from flourishing today.

Sharon: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, one of the things Bart is very attentive to is that we are not isolated human beings. Or you know, humans having, or beings having a human experience. We are spiritual beings, and therefore the integration is around all those areas of our lives in terms of purpose, call, vocation, which, you know, we use them interchangeably, but also service. How do we serve one another with integrity. So that also speaks about our interdependence too. So one of the things I think is really important is people know the history of our communities, our sisters and brothers, where they’ve come from, the history of, oppression and marginalised, of subjugation, which we carry in our bodies, which we still carry with us, in our psychological formation as well, because we encounter it every day. You know, when you’re being refused the same service, there’s somebody who has a different accent to you. You know why that is.

Gillian: Tell me more about, you said carrying in your body. Are we talking about inherited trauma? Intergenerational stuff? Or the trauma of your day to day, what does that mean? 

Sharon: I’m talking about both Gillian, to some extent.

Gillian: Okay. 

Sharon: I mean we started talking about the higher incidences of things like cardiovascular disease and diabetes and some mental health issues. Well, that’s not purely just down to the environment, but it’s also, a part of that, what is now recognised as inherited trauma, racialised trauma. And so if you are continually having to be vigilant, second guess things, we talked about, code switching, which is essentially – here’s a community way of communicating that is understood, and, and it’s useful and it’s great because it’s about, it’s a community asset. But it’s also used as a way to, to be able to communicate, not just within but without. So code switches when you amongst a group of people who are very different to you, they don’t know your context or your background or your community, and they make certain assumptions about you, which is essentially what stereotyping is, you force them to be understood.To adopt a different way of being. So it’s like, it’s like, I mean, I have for many years dwelt in the academic world. And so when you’re writing an academic paper, there are certain conventions. There’s a certain way of putting things, a certain methodology of writing. I don’t expect that writing to be, to be published in a mainstream newspaper, for instance. So I have to change and adapt.

Gillian:  You switch the communication? 

Sharon: The communication, but code switching is so much more than that. It’s that communication and language, but it’s also about almost it’s a reshaping, a reforming of my ways of being in order to be understood by the normative culture. 

Gillian: And do you think that is that subconscious or conscious or a bit of both? I mean, it’s not equally just exhausting.

Sharon: It is exhausting. It’s a bit of both. It’s a way that children are socialised in the main when they don’t belong to the main, homogenous community. I think when I was growing up, many, many years ago. I come from, Leeds, I’m a Yorkshire lass, and, inner city Leeds as well. And I was always a very inquisitive person. I loved reading, so for me, thinks like Dickens, Charles Dickens works, I was reading. I mean, I read them when I was younger because I loved reading, my parents. One of the reasons why they came to this country was to give their children a greater opportunity. They came to serve the NHS, and to work in the factories, as my dad did but also to have a greater opportunity for the children. So they encouraged us to read. But we also attended an inner city school that had a range of children from different parts of the world. And our teachers, bless them, they were lovely people, but their expectations of us were quite limited. So can you imagine, I go in one day want to speak about Great Expectations and, not understanding quite, you know what Dickens was writing about and I my teacher was saying, oh, no, you shouldn’t be reading that.

Gillian: Waow. 

Sharon: And I know it was because, I had a sense even at that age, it was because I was a young black kid. I shouldn’t be reading that, at that stage. And I remember going home to my mum, my mother saying, you know, nobody can limit what God has put inside you. And so having formative figures in the household telling me that made me aware and alert that there would be the things that I would have to encounter, outside in school and in the wider society. And so you start to develop mechanisms of coping. And so my mechanism of coping was, you know, often just just laying back and sussing out what the community was that I was in, and then adapting accordingly. So it’s that adaptation. And I think we all do it to some extent. But for people who are of colour, people from a global majority heritage background, that becomes even more accentuated just to some extent, to some people may even deny who they are authentically in their identity in order to assume an identity where they can feel safer. 

Gillian: Yeah, I wonder the impact, on the day to day impacts of that on our minds, bodies and spirits. What are they? 

Sharon: You know, I speak like this because I don’t want to say that’s a generalised thing. But, you know, as a public health practitioner before I became priest and as a priest working in community development and teaching at university, these are the things that I’ve seen and that the evidence, the empirical evidence does show.  So the impact is on our bodies and minds, this kind of way of being, of presenting ourselves to the world in order not to be, traumatised. And, you know, even though you present in a certain way, you are still open to that traumatic incidents of explicit racism or the implicit biases that you come across. and, you know, the assumptions that particularly people, who skin color is very obviously different, sort of the main indigenous communities are aware, but we are acutely aware of things because, as I say, it’s something that we’ve grown up in.

So it’s exhausting. It is wearing and there is a term, that’s associated with it called weathering. 

Gillian: Weathering.

Sharon: Weathering. And you know, so that has its impact psychologically, inevitably on our bodies. Because if you think about it, you’re in a state. Fight, flight mode. Your cortisol levels are high.

Gillian: And leads to inflammation.

Sharon: Inflammation, impacts your cardiovascular system. So it is a complex association with health, but it nevertheless is an association. 

Gillian: It’s so interesting, so on this podcast series we’ve also chatted with a psychotherapist and our conversation, well, you know, around past traumas and the, the healing potential of applying psychotherapy, doing psychotherapy for this, your description of of the situation, it’s a different kind of trauma. It’s like, day to day. It’s not like getting over something in the past, this is day to day stuff. But if we could, if, could we talk about, I wonder the, the slave trade and the ongoing impacts of that? Is it just about, as you say, education so people really do understand and what might be the the larger scale solutions, to considering the historical impacts for us today?

Sharon: For many years, we were reluctant as a society to talk about the transatlantic trade in chattel slavery from Africa and the impact in places like the Caribbean and North America, Britain and Europe. We kind of hid it. We redacted and changed history to deny that it was quite as bad as, as it was. You know, millions of people that were transported across the Atlantic in this trade and the culpability of the empires. And I’m talking about British, the Spanish, the Portuguese, you know, the impact on indigenous peoples where they are. It’s almost as if those in power did not want to go there because a. it really questioned the basis on which their power was founded, the influence was founded and the wealth was founded. So for many years the influence of people enabled our denial. So your question was around the continuing impact and the effects of that. And we’ve only recently, in the last few years, relatively short periods and decades have started to really talk about that. So part of addressing trauma is to be able to when the community, when the individual is ready to talk about it in ways that can start that healing process and those that have been responsible be part of that process to listen to the full ramifications of that.

But that initial, well, that ongoing pain. So we started talking about it and it doesn’t mean that the discussions are dependent on those, who have perpetrated it either in history or continue to benefit from the privileges of what had happened. It doesn’t mean that there is necessarily blame, but there should be an opportunity for catharsis and an opportunity for, for reconciliation. I don’t want to jump automatically to reconciliation without talking about restitution. Remorse and restitution are an important part of that and the opportunity to talk about these things. So we’re starting there. But it’s a hard journey and people feel that keenly. So I often say, you don’t have to talk about this. This is not just because you come from a certain background or you’ve been through a certain experience. You don’t have to talk about it until you’re ready, and you have to find brave and safe places to talk about this as well. Because there’s no point us opening up ourselves and being vulnerable for us to be the subject of somebody’s denial or retaliation or because somebody else is feeling guilty or wanting to change the narrative as well. So it’s, it’s something I think the church can be very instrumental in doing. But also seeking, seeking for peace for everyone involved and ultimately that journey to reconciliation, which is never an endpoint, which is a continuing process. 

Gillian: And in this Sharon what individual responsibility should each of us take for the healing, for this healing that you’re talking about?

Sharon: I think we have to ask ourselves a question, Gillian. How can we lower our defences? And of course, that is contingent on feeling sufficiently safe enough to do so. I  have to acknowledge that straight away. 

Gillian: Yeah.

Sharon:  But particularly those that are in positions of influence and power, how can we listen to the voices? How can we ask the question who’s missing? And work proactively to embrace others without othering, is what I call it. And I know that sounds a bit fluffy, but for me it’s about being real, about the honest conversation. We’re having a honest conversation now, which is I really, really relish this because so often people are so frightened to have the conversations. 

Gillian: So safety for black people, for white people, or for both?

Sharon: The safety required on both sides. And I think it’s a is about saying and being honest about what’s needed in order for us to have this deep conversation. And it might be that it has to be about building relationships first, about having tea and coffee and sharing food and talking about our families or talking about the weather. We’re going to talk about a very cultural orientated way of doing things, but building up relationship to the point where we start to say and ask, what is it that you need in order for us to have this conversation? And this is what I need in order to have this conversation. If that kind of ground cannot be negotiated beforehand, then the conversation isn’t ready to be had. Then we can’t go there. So it is about that intimacy. Yeah. 

Gillian: Have you got any examples you have of where this is being done really well? That level of safety and level of bravery are there so that something can happen.

Sharon: So in my work and I feel part of my call is to enter into what I call courageous conversations. And this started I think, I kind of briefly mentioned to you, I’ll give you an example of how it started for me, and then I’ll talk about more concrete examples. But this started when I was teaching many years ago, and I was on a lunch break, sitting down, between lectures, thinking, I’m going to gather my thoughts, have some lunch, and then prepare for my next lecture. And this young man came to sit opposite me on the table and the canteen where we were was very empty. And I’m thinking of all the place in all the world….why? Anyway, he came down, and I just looked up and kind of smiled at me and he said, is it all right if I tell you something? And I said, okay, fine. And then he proceeded to tell me that he was a racist, and I thought, right, what am I going to do with this? What am I going to say? You know, when you have those silent prayers and you think, Lord, not now, not here, I really don’t want this. Don’t go…you know, I’ve got another lecture. I want to eat in peace. And I and I just felt I needed to, to listen. I, and, my immediate reaction was to bolt or to just stand up and say, no, I don’t want to go there. But I felt for me, I was being called to listen. So I sat down there and he told me his story, that he had been raised in a particular context where all his formative role models had a particular perspective. He’d been there for most of his 19 years. He’d come to this place of learning mixed with all these people from all over the world, had these interesting seminar conversations and realised just, where he was and that he needed, as a, as a kind of, a confessional act to talk to somebody. And I just thought this is could have gone so badly wrong, you know, in many respects. But that was over 25 years ago, Gillian. And I still think about it, and I still talk about it, and I still pray about it. And when he had finished talking, he got up and said thank you and moved away. And I know that for me, that was the beginning of the clarity of my particular call to engage in courageous conversations and to be a conduit of Christ’s reconciling love because I think I was a very much a strident and I mean very strident advocate of, of justice in a way that probably didn’t have much love of another person, if I could put it like that. And so people as enemies, full stop. Now, I’m not saying that we all should do that. I think we’re all on a journey. We’re on different parts of that journey. But for me, my particular call was to enter into this courageous conversation. And it’s difficult and it’s costly.

Gillian:  What inspires you to keep going with those, that orientation to the world. You get out of bed and then oh, got to go out in the world and carry on being willing to have courageous conversations. What inspires you each day? 

Sharon: So this is where the pragmatic application comes in. So when I see these conversations being had very naturally. So, there are groups of people that are starting to realise that this disease of, of racism, because it is a stain and a disease that pervades our world, any sort of ism that is contrary to the kingdom of God. And so people are coming together very naturally once they have built up that foundation I spoke earlier about. About relationships, but creating safety and bravery are starting to have this conversation. I have been very fortunate to see these courageous conversations happening. And so that gives me hope. And that keeps me going because it’s not just contingent on one person, but it is about what’s being inspired by the Holy Spirit.

What’s happening now, this transformation, you know, which is based on this huge realisation that there are principles and powers and structural inequalities that exclude and marginalise and diminish the image of God in people. And so that when, when that realisation comes to the full, when people are able to speak about it and they say, what can we do about it?

Gillian:

Can we just go back? You said earlier that you’ve got a collective story as well, about where do you see this in practice? Could you tell us that story as well? Briefly.

Sharon: Yeah. So, I, I’m very interested in peace, peace studies and, what does that mean? So the Archbishop of Canterbury has this program called, the Difference course, which is, basically, an opportunity for people to come together to talk about certain aspects of where there is difference and misunderstanding, and it’s done a very gentle way. And it’s changed over the years. But it’s ostensibly about bringing people together to talk about, what that might mean. So it has principles embedded in it about curiosity, and reimagining things. And so I’ve been part of lots of groups doing that because over the years I brought the Difference course to Birmingham when I was a, a mission enabler here. And so I was part of groups and the conversations and the understanding that came out of that, because people felt it was a space to do that, where there was an intentional, intentional way of being in order to engage that way. So I’m not just, you know, although I think the Different course is fantastic. I’m not just advertising that as a process, but there are ways where we can do that. And I love to see children and young people engaged in conversations because they’re so much more honest about the conversations aren’t they?’Why is it like this? Why?’ And my, our daughter has been very instrumental in our ministry, because I remember her coming back one day and saying to us, ‘don’t call me a Christian anymore.’ And I thought, oh my goodness, what have we done? What have we done to put her off the faith? And she said, ‘because what does that mean?’ She said, ‘I’m a Jesus follower.’

Gillian: Wow. 

Sharon: And that, that shaped our ministry. 

Gillian: Yeah. 

Sharon: So when you start to hear that, when you hear groups of young people talk about how they would like to work in a world where people come together, this kind of communal way of health and wellbeing and flourishing, you can’t help but be inspired and hope for a future. So that’s what, that’s what enables me to get out of bed every day. 

Gillian: That is a big, huge vision, right? But it starts. I love what you’re saying. It start with, not just any conversation, not like a hi, how are you? What’s the weather doing? But a proper, brave, courageous conversation. And we can all talk to one another.

Sharon, thank you so much for being a part of this conversation. And we’re going to pick up everything you’ve said over in the GoHealth Community. This is a season we’re in, Healing Histories. So, if you’re listening log on to our website, GoHealth.org.uk and you can, find the GoHealth Community, where we will be engaging with what Sharon’s been saying. And keep the conversation going. And if you’re interested any new member of the GoHealth Community will receive a free journal. And one of the ways we’re reflecting on all of our podcasts is going on a journaling journey as well. So join today and get a free journal. Thank you to Rosie Dawson, our producer, and Wendy Lloyd from the GoHealth team for all her work on this series, Healing Histories, and the podcast. Please do hit share and let others know about our work so they also can tune into our conversation.

Sharon, once again, thank you so much for being on the GoHealth podcast. 

Sharon: Thank you Gillian. It’s been a pleasure.